Energy consumption correlates with solar output - strange?

Energy Monitors Current Cost
#10

If you report your net power which your EnviR provides and your solar production to PVOutput they will calculate your consumption accurately. However, there is a setting in the revenue model which tells PVOutput which kind of data you are providing. You must tell them that it is Gross rather than Net since your values include both consumption and generation. With your present setting your data is being interpreted as Net and it’s sign is wrong causing PVOutput to ADD the two instead of SUBTRACT. For some reason the selection in the Energy Tariffs selection in the System Settings controls how PCOutput handles your data. There are two models, Import and Export. There is a setting for each and in my case both must be set to “net”. However, in your case since your are sending a different data type you may need to set them both to Gross. To be sure you should post your problem and BankstownBloke should answer you on how you models should be selected.

Here is the help on setting the Tariff models:

https://pvoutput.org/help.html#tariffs-models

#11

Thanks, I think both were set to gross before adding the solar and after it was included I did not get correct information anymore to import/export. I guess I changed both to Net based on the description and to my assumption on how EnviR was still reporting.

I guess export at least should be set to gross. Well, I’ll test the options and ask if it is seems I cannot get to the correct values. Thanks a bunch, your help is very much appreciated! :smile:

#12

You are very welcome.
I have looked at it again and came to the conclusion that both import and export models should be set to “net” then see if everything looks correct before making any change to gross. I reset my Export to Gross and got what you were showing. My usage changed to track with my production as you were seeing. When I changed it back the bad data remained but the new data was correct. I had to use the live loader to correct the bad data. It was a little tricky but I finally got it done. The live loader can also be used to fill in missing data which I retrieved from my Neurio device and in your case it would be your EnviR device. You must be careful to use the correct date and time formats in you inputs. I use Excel to prepare the data and when done correctly I can just copy for the excel sheet and paste it into the live loader window and within a minute or two the upload is completed.

#13

Here is something that differentiates our systems:

I have looked at it again and came to the conclusion that both import and export models should be set to “net” then see if everything looks correct before making any change to gross

As mentioned both tariff models were set to “Net” and the results are as you’ve seen. I thought about experimenting with changing export to “Gross” but based on documentation this is not correct way to do it either as then “all generation is exported” and I understand that export means the power that goes back to the grid (the “extra” amount that is not consumed by my appliances).

@bankstownbloke - could you perhaps comment on your behalf how I should setup my system? https://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=7097&sid=5683

#14

Note the tariff models set on PVOutput does not affect how the live 5-minute data is recorded or displayed. It will only affect the calculated daily credit/debit.

PVOutput will display exactly what is measured and uploaded by currentcost. Depending on the uploading software used, the API by default will accept gross data, if the device is measuring Net data then use the &n=1 parameter when uploading data.

#15

Thanks, this is what I suspected. Do you know if there is an easy way to set this flag when using PVOutput integration service (running on RPi)? I checked pvoutput.ini, pvoutput.conf and currentcost.ini but did not see this setting. Although, if I’ve understood it correctly I can use the logged power values and use the api call in a separate script to upload. However, there are no logs of used energy. Should this be just the average of the last 5 (once per minute) logged power values * 1/12h or is there some more advanced logic (as EnviR measures power every 6 seconds)?

#16

PVOutput Integration Service only supports gross data uploads from Currentcost. Most Currentcost devices measure gross household consumption.

Power is aggregated to 5-minute intervals by the service and energy is calculated from these values on PVOutput.

#17

Most Currentcost devices measure gross household consumption.

Do you think in my situation this is not the case, e.g. when looking at the graph here: https://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=7097&sid=5683&gs=0&da=1&dt=20180414
where “Power used” graph follows the “Power generated” graph. I would like to achieve a graph that display how much power all of my appliances are consuming and now it is something else :slight_smile:

Power is aggregated to 5-minute intervals by the service and energy is calculated from these values on PVOutput.

Great, so one less thing to “worry” about. If uploading as “Net” is the correct way to go, I would just use the integration service to create the log that includes power value for each minute (I guess those are aggregated from batches of 10 measurements done at 6 second intervals by EnviR) and upload every five minutes the average of the latest five log values with a correct “Net” flag?

#18

That graph looks like gross data.

If this was Net data then there would be many 0W readings where negative readings are recorded for export data.

#19

Ah, ok, Then back to square one :smiley:

I guess we all agree that this “Gross” is someway affected with the solar power as it follows the solar power graph? I posted my working “theory” above, but that is only based on what I’m observering, I understand the illogicality of it :slight_smile:

can the logic be this: EnviR always shows the “dominant” value whether it is consumption or export. While solar output is 0-2x consumption is the “dominant” (bigger) value. When solar output is > 2 x consumption then export becomes bigger than consumption and will get reported instead.

Is there anything I could do to be able to show “Power used” as what is really being used in my household? As it was before adding the solar panels? I’m afraid not, with the current setup at least…?

#20

Currentcost support can probably help, as your sensors may not be wired correctly and sending wrong data to PVOutput.

#21

Worth a shot of course although cannot see there would be much to do. For 6 years it has measured consumption correctly but not after installing solar panels. It is the CT clamp model where I just put one clamp over each of the three phases coming directly from the main switch. But let’s see if they could help…:slight_smile:

edit: sent this to their technical support:

Hello,

after adding solar panels to my house, the EnviR (model with 3 CT jaws, one for each phase) is not measuring total consumption anymore. Prior to this it has worked well for 6 years.

Now I’m not sure anymore what it is measuring as when the solar power increases, also what EnviR is showing increases. It never shows anything below the base consumption but when solar power is e.g. 2.6kW and my real consumption (assumed) is aroung 0.6kW, EnviR is showing 2kW. It is almost like it is always showing either consumption or export, whichever is higher. Is there something I could do to get it back to show the real consumption?

#22

You should get help from an EnviR technician. It looks like it may not have been designed to accommodate Solar generation if it doesn’t sense current flowing in the opposite direction. That being said, CT’s do produce a signed signal indicating direction of flow of the current and certainly could give you the data you need. They need to tell you if you can access the CT data directly which should solve you problem.
I just found this information from EnviR online: http://www.currentcost.com/solar-pv/installation.html It may help.

#23

I changed my Import model from Net to Gross and the data display of consumption was changed to track my Solar Production instead of consumption. Changing it back to Net corrected the display. Apparently each model uses your data under a different set of equations or assumptions. You will have to excuse me if I don’t have sufficient knowledge of your models so what is the difference in the Gross and Net models…what data is each model expecting to receive?

#24

Data uploaded is always gross, unless Net is specified in the upload. Even when a Net upload is specified it is always converted back to Gross and recorded as such.

The tariff models do not affect the uploaded live data, it only affect how the import/export is calculated in order to work out the daily debit and credit amount.

These calculations are documented in the tariff model section -

#25

Your description of the import model set to “net”:

“Import is attributed only at intervals (every 5 minutes) during which consumption is greater than generation”

My system, by design, does not have any net import except on days during which I don’t produce more energy than my home uses, but even on those days the daily summary does not show any import but it does show a negative “net” bar. So even though I imported energy on that day when the sun is below the horizon the net import bar will show but the import bar will be zero?
Both import and export models are set to net. I never have had an import bar appear on the daily summary. I always import energy during the dark hours in the amount of 8 to 10 kWhs. You will see them but I entered those values manually.
Please explain where I am missing something in my reasoning process.
summary for yesterday and so far today:

image.png679×631 30.4 KB

note that there is no import bar and used = saved. This is true on a cummulative basis because I have a large excess of generation of over 2,000 kWhs. Here are the tabulated values. You can see that the Exported values are too high and the import values are nil. I have entered manually the values for preceding days. So where am I going wrong?

image.png1631×253 52.7 KB

It appears that the Imported is being ignored and added to the Exported. Yesterday your model said I exported 32.9 kWh, consumed 15.2 kWh and Imported 0 kWh. Actually I consumed 15.5, Imported 8.06 and exported a net of 25.28. The only two figures in agreement are production and consumption.

#26

I’m not sure what has changed but now my site is reporting energy imported in the daily summary. It has been showing up in the “net Production” page but not in the daily summary.

#27

The only setting that would stop import/export from being calculated is Net Calculation set to Disabled under Advance Settings of the system setup -

There appears to be import on the latest date -

image.png864×128 9.33 KB

Looking for help to confirm my setup is ok?
#28

Like I said I don’t know what changed but the Import started showing up for the first time yesterday. The Net Calculations setting has always been enabled to the best of my knowledge…I haven’t made any changes to it and it is currently enabled. The only changes I have made were in the Tariff model changing between Net and Net Daily and back to Net in the Export field. That was done just before I noticed that there were Import values being displayed in the Live view.
My programmer is trying to fill in lost data when my consumption data uploading program stops running for a period of time but he left me a message about not being able to proceed:
“unfortunate note: for extended API usage, you must get an API key, as IP Address calling only supports current-sample”

Would it be possible to obtain the needed API key?
Currently I am manually filling in the lost data using the live-loader.

#29

Please see - https://pvoutput.org/help.html#api-getting-started